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West Ham
Topic Started: Mar 20 2014, 01:33 PM (5,818 Views)
Mick
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Sam Allardyce reckons seven more points should be enough to secure West Ham's Premier League status for another year.

West Ham go into this weekend's Saturday Night Football clash against Manchester United on 31 points - six clear of third-bottom Sunderland, who have played two fewer games.

Allardyce believes almost half the division - including his own side - are still under threat from relegation with an average of nine matches to play.

And ahead of the champions' visit on Saturday the West Ham manager has set a 38-point target for survival.

"I think probably about 38 points (will be enough)," he said. "Then again, with nine games to go, some have 10, it's swings and roundabouts more than ever before.

"Normally at this stage of the season it's usually down to five or six teams rather than 10. There's still 10 teams - maybe nine now because I think Stoke will be safe - any of those nine need to pick up as many points as they can.

"Our aim is always to obtain more points than games played, that has been the case since the start of the season.

"Forget where you are in the league, just make sure you get more points than games played to first secure your position in the Premier League and then see how far you can go. We know full well that we've got a little bit more to do."

West Ham have won three home games in succession, but Allardyce is wary of opponents who have taken seven points from nine in their past three away fixtures and who travel to London on a high following their UEFA Champions League victory over Olympiakos.

He said: "The focus is to maintain our home results and try our best to pull off a big result. Try and win, but if we don't then make sure we come away with at least a point.

"Everybody's talking about Manchester United, but in their last away game they disposed of West Brom, winning 3-0.

"David Moyes has got so many players to choose from that fatigue won't come into it that much, because he can change the side that played against Olympiakos with top international players if he wants to."

Despite their decent away form United could be 21 points off the top of the table by the time kick-off comes on Saturday, and Allardyce says United's struggle to adapt to Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement is no surprise.

"David Moyes has to be given time to establish himself and make the changes that need to be made," he said. "It's a massive, massive job for David and this season has been a massive learning curve for him.

"In the end, they haven't had as good a season as they would have liked. I don't think it surprises many of us that when someone like Sir Alex Ferguson leaves, it becomes a struggle for whoever takes over."
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mick
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West Ham won last night but got booed off.

What is wrong with these people? Ok, they won ugly, but a win is a win. I always thought Man City fans were about the worst but these clowns are right up there. ds1
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mark32
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A little unfair I feel. First of all let me start of by saying I'm not a booer and never will be however I completely sympathize with those who are booing.

The ticket prices are atrocious, tickets prices now range between £42 and £70 for any decent seat and we're not a team with rich supporters. We're paying Champions League prices to see us just survive. Those who pay these money will be expecting to be entertained and we're not currently. Football is just a form of entertainment after all.

There is a complete lack of creativity in the team despite possessing one of the best, statistically, passers in the league in Noble. Our most creative player in Ravel Morrison is out on loan to QPR because he won't sign with Allardyce's agent. Several of our youth team products have signed up to Allardyce's agent when signing a new contract including Tomkins and Collison (and also signing Carroll, Nolan, Jarvis, Jaaskelainen and more all from the Curtis stable). Heitinga rejected a move to us in January because we asked him to do the same and because Morrison won't sign with Mark Curtis he'll be sold in the summer if Allardyce is here. No player wanted to sign for us in January as their agents kept advising them against the move over Allardyce's actions http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/group-leading-agents-call-action-2989374

Then there's the tactics. I have no problem with percentage football. If done right it can be effective however some of the tactics are just bemusing. We have a left winger in Matty Taylor playing defensive midfield, and a defensive midfielder in Diame playing on the left wing, a position he has been atrocious in all season, while leaving our £11 million winger Matt Jarvis on the bench. We sign a top international left back in Armero in January and he's had a 10 minute cameo against Stoke and an international midfielder in Nocerino behind Matty Taylor. There's a persistance with Nolan despite some atrocious performances. He can't pass, cross or tackle. We play with 10 men if he isn't scoring. To top if all off our best defender in Winston Reid is sitting on the bench every week. Sam Allardyce moans his player can't score yet he's signed every single one of our current strikers, and even with the ones that have left, the highest scoring striker of them all was Carroll with 7 in a season. And in the past two years all the player he's signed have only scored 9 goals between them this season.

All this while wanting to fill up the Olympic Stadium. It won't happen if it stays like it is. The trouble is we have no faith in Gold and Sullivan to make the right decision to replace Allardyce either. They have a profile of british with experience in the top league. They've only once hired outside of that profile and it was Avram Grant. Sam Allardyce's doesn't endear himself to the fans either, day one he came in and said the West Ham way was rubbish and meant losing every week. He laughed and said 'for what' when asked if he'd apologize for the 5-0 and 6-0 defeats back to back in January.

It wasn't just about last night. Last night was just another reason for fans to become disillusioned and fed up. The fans weren't booing the team. They were booing the manager.
Edited by Mark32, Mar 27 2014, 03:24 PM.
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Mick
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What a great first post. :clap:

I understand people being upset but booing during a game is shocking.

Sometimes it is hard to play v 10 men because they sit back so much.
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Mark32
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Mick
Mar 27 2014, 04:13 PM
Sometimes it is hard to play v 10 men because they sit back so much.
Understandable. But that wasn't the problem last night. We scored the penalty which reduced them to 10 men then decided to hold what we had. Hull were the better team and dominating us and creating more chances. We conceded early in the first half, had one attack forward causing a very lucky own goal and then went right back to defending. We had 30% of the possession in the second half. There was no ambition to even try and increase the lead. Carroll was playing left back at time in the second half.
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Mar 27 2014, 04:19 PM
Understandable. But that wasn't the problem last night. We scored the penalty which reduced them to 10 men then decided to hold what we had. Hull were the better team and dominating us and creating more chances. We conceded early in the first half, had one attack forward causing a very lucky own goal and then went right back to defending. We had 30% of the possession in the second half. There was no ambition to even try and increase the lead. Carroll was playing left back at time in the second half.
30%, honestly?

What do you think of Carroll? I was gutted we sold him.
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Mark32
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Mar 27 2014, 04:58 PM
30%, honestly?

What do you think of Carroll? I was gutted we sold him.
That was the stat that the stream I was watching showed. There's where fans got annoyed. There was no pressing from us on any Hull player on the ball at all.

It's hard for Carroll, before he got suspended he was still refinding his touch after his injury. He's had to change his jumping style to avoid upsetting it again. Since coming back from his red card you can see he's got his touch back, I like him and he's our best striker by far but his movement is still lacking. Not enough shots fired on goal in the right positions.
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Mick
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Mark32
Mar 27 2014, 05:21 PM
Mick
Mar 27 2014, 04:58 PM
30%, honestly?

What do you think of Carroll? I was gutted we sold him.
That was the stat that the stream I was watching showed. There's where fans got annoyed. There was no pressing from us on any Hull player on the ball at all.

It's hard for Carroll, before he got suspended he was still refinding his touch after his injury. He's had to change his jumping style to avoid upsetting it again. Since coming back from his red card you can see he's got his touch back, I like him and he's our best striker by far but his movement is still lacking. Not enough shots fired on goal in the right positions.
He needs the right ball. He and Nolan will work well together given time.

I can see the hammers being a top 10 team under big Sam.
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Mar 27 2014, 05:38 PM
He needs the right ball. He and Nolan will work well together given time.

I can see the hammers being a top 10 team under big Sam.
Nolan needs Carroll. Carroll doesn't nee Nolan. That's the difference between the two. Nolan's legs have gone, he shouldn't be the automatic starter he is but he will continue to get picked.

We are a top 10 team under Allardyce, we got 10th last season. However I get the feeling that's the highest he'll ever get with us. Most fans don't care if we losing week in week out as long as we're playing nice football. A lot of fellow season ticket holders have already decided they won't be renewing next year if Allardyce is in charge. Too much bad blood under the bridge now for Allardyce days not to be numbered. It's not a case of if anymore but when he leaves.
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Mick
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I didn't know the fans felt like that about Allardyce.

I don't think the David's have the money to get you beyond 10th? Sadly with Man City and Chelsea being rich mans play things you now need a shed full of cash to get anywhere.

They say UEFA has fair play now but that simply is not true.
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Gold and Sullivan don't have the money you're right. They've already said if we're relegated this season they don't have the money to sustain us and they are counting every penny they can. Karen Brady has sacked all our scouts, we now rely on a system of agent friends of Sullivan recommending players to us, with us sending Barry Silkman out to complete the deals for us. But they have still broken our transfer record two seasons in a row so there is money there.

It's not about getting above 10th though. That's Gold and Sullivan's desire. They want European football badly, fans just want to be entertained. Most of our fans look at Southampton and say it can be done, Allardyce doesn't give our youth a try (or when he does he sends them out for slaughter V Nottingham Forest), he preferred to play Matty Taylor at right back earlier this season than give a promising full back in Leo Chambers a try.

Fans are tired if Allardyce, he could be tolerated when we had to get promoted and survive in the first season. Now performances have massively dropped off, a lot of whispers behind the scenes of his conduct over the agent dealings and he's never truly been accepted by the fans. In my opinion we need to shake hands at the end of the season, thank him for the good work he has done and part as friends.
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Mick
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The fans trust Barry Silkman  but not big Sam?

Who would you like to see come in?
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Mark32
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Oh we don't trust Barry Silkman one bit. It's David Sullivan that trusts him, we hate him. The one solace is that after some pretty poor transfers all he now does is the leg work for Sullivan in meeting players rather than going out and finding then suggesting players to sign.

To be honest I don't know. Malky Mackay is a name a lot of people would like, but for all of Vincent Tan's stupidity he was right about Mackay being giving a lot of money for dud players. We don't have that money to waste. Michael Laudrup is the latest name linked but his only does transfer deals through his agent (similar to Allardyce) and the fact Swansea went backwards under him would worry me. My personal choice would be Slaven Bilic, he's got a pretty good club record and has said countless times he'd leave any job he's currently in in order to manage West Ham. However it's not the way Gold and Sullivan pick their managers, no experience in England rules him out. It'll be one of Redknapp, Hoddle (David Sullivan's best friend) or McLeish. I'd take any of the previous 3 over those 3 personally.
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Mick
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I rate Malky Mackay. Cardiff City were doomed as soon as they let him go. West Ham could do far worse than give Malky a shot.

I still think big Sam has/is doing the job that he was brought in to do.
Unless someone brings big money in you'll always be around the same area of the table.

It would be nice to see a few youth players get given a chance.
Edited by Mick, Mar 28 2014, 11:38 AM.
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mark32
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I like Mackay but trouble is his his track record on transfers and the fact when he left Cardiff they have more long balls per game than we did. I'm unsure if he's the man that he's percepted to be, I have no problems with percentage football. It can be effective if done right, and you're right we could do a lot worse than him. Never watched Cardiff on a regular basis so unsure what his style actually is.

It's not about getting up the table though. West Ham fans don't care about Europe, the Champions League etc... we just want good football. It's Gold and Sullivan who have been bleating ever since we got the Olympic Stadium that 'We will be a top 6 club when we move there, We need to build a team fit for the Olympic Stadium'. That's their desire, not ours.

You're right Sam Allardyce has done the job he was brought in to do. I'm not a Sam Allardyce hater, although it might sound like I am, I just sympathize with those who booed. However I do think the end of this season is the right time for both of us to part ways. The relationship is broken with the fans, it's going to be near on impossible to win it back.

It would be nice to see a few youth teamers given a chance. We have Elliott Lee (Rob Lee's son) banging in goals week in week out for our youth team but Allardyce preferred to play 4-6-0 over giving him a chance earlier this season.There's the Matty Taylor at right back case instead of the very promising Leo Chambers as well this season.

I'll always remember a home game under Allardyce in his first season with us in Championship when it comes to youth team players. We were drawing 0-0 at home with Bristol City, completely dominating them, having attack after attack but no break through. He had one sub left, two players on the bench to choose between. Papa Bouba Diop, the highly defenisve midfielder, or Rob Hall the speedy young striker. He chose to take off striker Freddie Sears for Diop. The game finished 0-0. On a similar trend later in the season we were drawing 1-1 at home with Doncaster. He had a final sub to make. He had to choose between 19 year old Ravel Morrison and the defender Danny Collins. He chose to sub Kevin Nolan for Danny Collins. The game finished 1-1. Had we won both those games we would have gone up as title winners.
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Mick
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Clearly you know far more about it than I do.

I only tend to follow Liverpool results. Other than that I only know what Sky report.
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mick
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West Ham,

You are now safe. Do us a favour? :Liverpool:
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mark32
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You have nothing to fear anyway. We've not beaten a team in the top 4 all season, only getting a very lucky draw V Chelsea. I'd like to see Liverpool win the league.

We're not safe though by any means if we lose tomorrow. The gap drops to 6 points if we lose, with Sunderland having a game in hand. We still have to play Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City and Tottenham, in between those matches being West Brom and Palace. If we lose on Monday it means we have to pick up points in those two games. No mistakes. If we win tomorrow I might start to relax.
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I think you are safe now.

You'll beat Sunderland and end up around the same position in the league.
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surgemus Warriors (From ashes we rise)

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Mark32
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We'll see. We're much poorer away from home. Allardyce will set up for the draw, which wouldn't be a bad result. But with Collins out injured we're lacking that person who will stick his foot in to stop Sunderland passing around us. We're also had a poor record against Sunderland recently. Just have to hope Reid has shaken off his rustiness after his injury that cost us V Stoke and Diame is played centrally.

On a side note I see Liverpool have been linked with Reid and some fans turning their nose up at him. Trust me if you sign him you'll be signing a quality defender. His reading of the game is fantastic, last season he only made one mistake of note. He's only lost his place due to injury and the form of Tomkins in his absence. He's rusty at the minute after a 3 month lay off and a couple of months sitting on the bench. But when he's match fit there's only a handful of defenders better than him in my opinion in the Premier League.
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